I forgot to start a new post for comments. Thanks for the reminder, Dave.
What doesn't work? What seems forced? What would you like to know? Worldbuilding--missed opportunities?
Thanks everyone.
Writing that kicks your ass
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
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Chris, I continue to be swept away and excited for this completely original book. As far as your setting question, my feeling is you have done an exceptional job. Vivid details and everything feels important to know.
ReplyDeleteThere are times where your point of view shifts out from Orson to a more omniscient narrator. This is tricky because you have a very smooth, elegant style of showing your world and not telling, so it becomes that much more noticeable when you're dropping in info from outside Orson's point of view. I generally didn't have a problem with those very few places you did this, but it did jar me when you told us how breasts are “widely considered a physical blemish in a society where beauty was defined by the sum of a person’s reductions.” That's a beautiful sentence though.
There are plenty of unanswered questions you fill my head with. But you also give me a sense that I'm going to find out. Oh delicious mystery! Of course the first question I had is what in blazes is going on? I get a good sense for this by the chilling end of chapter one. Another huge question, which also came up in workshop, is, why is Orson different? Again, I feel like this is the mystery I'm going to find out. You even put this question directly in Chapter Four “Was he the only one who found this disturbing?” His revulsion of the reduction culture and his difficulty with the packets – this normal kid's coping with a wacked out society is for me the story's anchor.
Then there's the whole quasi-religious question of who is Agnes? But again, your repeated references assure me I'm going to find out.
I'm mainly just in awe of this, but let me say a couple of little nitpicky things I was distracted by.
1.The end of chapter one - “There was a dull thonk, and just like that, Orson’s pinky finger was reduced.” Just like that? Really? What about the blood before the cauterization? What about his reaction? I bet you made a deliberate choice not to include this, but I still felt unsatisfied with “just like that.”
2.How old is Orson? 15 I'm assuming? Did I just miss it? Not that this has to be that important, but the question is in my head because there's the whole thing with the packet levels. And then Yash already has his own apartment though he does say his friends are younger. I just wonder if you could address these little age questions more directly so they don't distract me from the main story questions?
I loved it Chris. From the chilling first chapter to the grizzly tour of the monuments. What horrors must await these three in the incinerator!
Those first few pages were so vivid. I don’t read a lot of horror but I know you did a good job with that opener because I was so horrified my stomach tried to revolt. I seriously felt like I was going to throw up. Good job!
ReplyDeleteNice world building too. I can clearly picture this underground society filled with people who have freely chosen to have themselves mutilated. I just hope I can sleep tonight. As horrible as reduction is, you hinted at a scenario I could accept based upon a past of amputations that were essential to maintain life and that the practice became distorted over time. There are definite parallels to our own society, which you tied into.
I did wonder about the hopping tour guide though. It’s so hard to hop on one leg as a mode of transportation. The image of a hoping around guide briefly took me out of the story.
The romance element is working for me as is the anticipation of visiting the forbidden incinerator.
I’m glad Orson and Marja aren’t into reduction. I am definitely rooting for them.
Chris,
ReplyDeleteA society of psychopathic nurturers of masochistic offspring took me aback at the start of “Reduction.” However, after allowing myself to be drawn in by the physical detail which is well done, I started to see the humor in Orson. But then, maybe his humor is a substitute for horror, “he focused on what was left of his mother.” But then, the horror of growing up without hugs, struck. There is a balance between the physical discomfort the reader, I hope, feels, and feeling sorry for Orson.
You are creating a world full of metaphors relating to a 2010 world.
Incinerator = holocaust
Orange Jumpsuit = prisoner
Agnes Plaza = Disneyland
Marja (my parents will hate me, but it’s my body) = any adolescent girl
Reduction = increased burden on the health care system and very rich surgeons. (I work in a hospital)
I find the premise fascinating and fun reading, but I think the story needs eventually to stand on its own fed by a few key metaphors.
And, is there a male counterpart to breast reduction? If so, how does the society perpetuate itself? Darwin would love this.
Bill
Chris…
ReplyDeleteYou have hit some of my major hot buttons for YA lit, education, religion, and understanding society. Excellent work. I have always been a fan of this kind of story, especially since one of my favorite short stories of all time is Piers Anthony’s “On the Uses of Torture”. This is the story I mentioned to you in residency, where the more torture you can endure, the higher in society you can climb (limb and internal organ removals are included).
The education packets are interesting and I think this will be fleshed out more, as the story progresses. At this point, I am interested in them, but you haven’t really explained how they are applied, or what purpose the serve. We understand the consequences of not doing well, but what are the rewards? This reminds me a little of “City of Ember” as well. I loved the originality Jeanne DuPrau showed in that book, and this is right on that level.
You asked about what feels “forced”. Orson’s revulsion of the reduction process feels forced. You have told us he is repulsed, but we don’t know why. Show us. (A short paragraph would do the trick.)
OR
I am not trying to re-write your story for you, but wouldn’t it make a better story if he was CHANGED by his own first reduction, and Marja was too, but she has had more time to ponder this? This sets up a whole realm of relatively “normal” conflicts, where Marja is the girl who is changing Orson’s attitudes, etc. Can you see the scenes where Orson realizes that he is not as efficient without his pinky finger, and then he starts seeing people like the mail carrier, and how his reductions are actually a hindrance? This causes the CONFLICT. This awakening is akin to other eye-opening awarenesses that teens go through. Basically, Orson is just like us, the reader, and you the writer, in his opinion that reduction is disgusting and maims one’s body. So when I read the lines where he talks about his own feelings on the subject, it feels too familiar, like writer intrusion. Orson doesn’t belong in your world either. Plus, no one knows about his opinions on reduction? Even his close friends (well, maybe Marja) or parents?
One could argue, that Orson can be compared to a gay person (I know, gay people often don’t know why they are gay, which is why I use the argument). I assume, a gay person views society completely different than the heterosexual world. This is what you are asking us to believe about Orson. He (already at the beginning of the book) does not subscribe to his religion, his society, and feels most women (and men) are repulsive, including his mother. Where is there for us to go, character-wise? He already agrees with the reader. I think it would be a much deeper story if we join him in this journey of discovery, instead of having it dropped in our laps. I mean what real teenager isn’t excited to get their license on their 16th birthday! But here, in your world, the prize is, less mobility? Less dexterity? Orson may not have been expecting that, and there is the spring board. We know this as readers, but we should be allowed to see Orson discover it.
Part II
ReplyDeleteI don’t know. Does this make any sense? I am rambling a lot, but I love this world you have created, and it has GREAT potential. I am a die-hard sci-fi fan, and this will really play well. I thought it was a specifically poignant detail, that non-reduced persons were looked at as second-class citizens, or servants. This is not far from the truth, as with more mobility, it would fall to the non-reduced to do much of the menial tasks. Those details make this rich.
I didn’t talk about your other questions, because I think it is all working and I want to know everything!
Is the first reductionist Van Gogh? Rachel was the name of the prostitute he sent his earlobe to for safe keeping if I recall...
Well done, Chris. Loved it!
PS: If you are going to go with Orson developing his revulsion for “Reductionism” the unveiling of Agnes Plaza would really be the place to have that fully come to bloom, in which case you might consider moving that scene until later. This is such a neat place in your world, and it kind of seems like a throw away, as an excuse for Orson to meet up with Marja & Yash. Also, speaking without lips is nearly impossible, you don’t mention this or change his speech pattern. (World building) Also, I would have to agree with Bill, that the dangly parts of men are pretty superfluous. If we are eliminating breasts, what about the dangly bits? HUH??? :D
Chris,
ReplyDeleteThis is great. Part of what’s working so well is your world-building. You parcel out information in appropriate portions and at appropriate times. You offer detailed, deliberate descriptions. And you put us firmly in Orson’s perspective. You do a good job of slowing things down when you need to, giving us detail after painful detail (with painstaking accuracy). Like in the moment of Orson’s first reduction, the world slows down for him, and the reader sees it, feels it. My dad’s a type-1 diabetic and I grew up watching the whole insulin injection thing. The sterilizing. The snapping of the syringe in half. Very precise, accurate details.
What I DON'T know now, I trust I will find out. The story is in good hands.
I was surprised by the religious connection. I thought at first reductions were just a cosmetic thing (a commentary on excessive plastic surgery—the Heidi Montags of the world). But having a socio-cultural and religious connection adds another fascinating layer to the whole thing—and raises the stakes. Nice work.
In terms of things you can look at, I’m wondering if you’ve thought about casting this in first person? Don’t hate me for suggesting it. I think it’s working in third person, and you do an excellent job of getting us inside Orson’s head, but sometimes I still feel removed from the story, removed from Orson. Maybe the choice of third person is very deliberate on your part. This is, after all, a very visceral narrative, and maybe it would be too much for it to be narrated by the protagonist. Also, having it in third person kind of gives it the air of legend. Maybe that’s what you’re going for. The Giver (Lowry), for instance, I think is in third, and it feels like a story that’s been around for much longer than fifteen years. Feed (Anderson), on the other hand is in first. And the reader benefits from being in the thick of it. The voice is very strong.
Maybe first person would give this story another punch (it is for YA readers, after all). Maybe not. The voice is already there. And I think it’s working. But I kept wondering what it would be like if Orson were telling us his own tale.
I think the characterization is good. Orson reminds me (forgive the constant comparisons) of the protagonist from The Giver (Jonas, is it?). He feels like he doesn’t belong to the bizarre world he’s living in. He represents a counterpoint to society as it exists. And what I love is that even though the reader can identify with Orson, he, within the context of his culture, would be considered a misfit, even a delinquent, if others knew how he felt.
Yash and Marja are also well drawn, and you do a good job of showing us who they are. And the romantic connection is great. That he’s physically attracted to her the way she is (even the very parts that are most socially unacceptable), is a good twist.
One more thing I thought about when reading this—I wondered what would happen if you set the bulk of the story closer to his sixteenth birthday? The first chapter is his first reduction at fifteen. We learn that he’s repulsed by it. Then fast forward to a few weeks before his sixteenth birthday, when he’s expected to get another reduction. (As I understand it, they get reductions on their birthdays, right?) That would raise the stakes significantly. Just a thought.
Finally, like a good episode of the Twilight Zone (of which I know you’re a fan), this story is a fascinating read, keeping me engaged through the entire 19+ pages. I couldn’t put it down. But also, it offers an interesting social commentary. Because, I think it’s about more than whether to reduce or not to reduce. It’s about how to fit into a society you fundamentally disagree with. I sometimes felt like that as a teenager. I sometimes feel like that now.
Or maybe not. Whatever this story turns into, it will be great. Thank you for sharing, Chris!
Chris - Just a heads up, I probably won't get you feedback until after the 7th. That's when my final packet is due, so it's kind of a mad dash to write as much as I can right now.
ReplyDeleteI promise to comment as soon as I can!
Sorry I'm jumping in late, Chris!
ReplyDeleteI loved reading _Reduction_!
I've enjoyed being in this world (as a reader!) and think you've done a wonderful job of imagining it richly. _Reduction_ does make me think of _Feed_ in that respect, and _Reduction_ does offer not only commentary on religion and social ideals of beauty, but also a protagonist who is clever (despite how his society's standards would measure his intelligence!) and even capable of humor--he seems very much a teen. And the odd and shocking thing is Orson and his society have clear parallels with a teen today and our society (our ideals of beauty are arbitrary and harmful, too).
The writing is magnificent, from how the scenes are structured (so much suspense builds during the opening scene!) to how lines of dialogue and description so often have so much significance beneath the literal--the irony in Orson's friend's descriptions of the young women he ogles reveals not only the absurdity of his and his society's notions of beauty, but also of those that prevail in our society.
This perhaps goes along with something Jason mentioned--I wonder what the story would be like if Orson had not yet have formed his opposition to reduction with such clarity. I imagine that someone like Orson, who has an innate quality that is in direct opposition to his society's norms, would suppress whatever part of himself is in opposition with his society. For example, though M's breasts pressing against Orson give him natural excitement, he might feel guilty for being excited because for his whole life society has cultivated him to think differently, and that guilt may have further consequences as to how he thinks of himself. I hope that makes sense. So perhaps as he has more experiences (his first reduction, the park tour, what happens up at the incinerator) that make him question the rightness of reduction, he might become more resolute in his opposition to it and society and believe in his native revulsion--and himself. I guess I'm just imagining what it would be like for O to live in this milieu.
One book I think of is Spinelli's _Wringer_. The protagonist is only 10, but he's in similar opposition to his community (Palmer doesn't want to be a wringer, a kid who breaks the necks of the pigeons that are injured during the annual, fund-raising shooting contest. However, it's a right of passage for the town's ten-year-olds to be wringers, but the thought of being a wringer makes Palmer sick).
I'm also curious what the story would be like if Orson told it and what following his voice would reveal, but I also think the third-person's working very well. Each POV has its advantages. Maybe try some 1st person, even if just to find out more about the intricacies of Orson's character.
Wonderful story! I want to know what happens when Orson goes up to the incinerator!
Sorry for the late posting, I'm trying to catch up. :)
ReplyDeleteSince you were in the same workshop group, I don't know if I can add much more, but I'll try!
One of the things you do so well is set up the unnerving creepiness of it all. You really do a nice job of showing how it's so ordinary to these people, with the exception of Orson, who begins to question the merits of this unnecessary reduction and it's effects on society.
I like how you brought more of the religion into that opening chapter, especially with Agnes given how important she is and will be in your story and the world of your story. Be careful, though. You don't want to over dramatize this. Handle this scene very steadily. Take a breath, let things build, let us care about the characters a bit more. it might be me, or the new information, but the chapter seems a little more rushed than in your last draft. Also, careful with the ritual, make sure this is something that is believable. The skull candle makes sense if it symbolizes death, but it caught me as melodromatic. And your characters seem much more fanatic then before, which can be both a positive and a negative. Try to hang onto the ordinary horror of this event. Let the terror build in Orson. I mean, everyone in his life says this is normal, why is he so against this. It's obvious to us, as readers, but make sure it's believable for Orson to be this freaked out by something that everyone goes through. Make the ceremony like church. Combined with a birthday part. And a grisly amputation. That's what it is, and the horror of those three things, so at odds with each other will carry it through. Your story always reminded me of The Lottery, and it might be worth reading that short story to see how that subtle, ordinary horror builds.
I think the section with Orson and his friend talking about girls and how they'd be prettier with a breast reduction and such is great. it's so interesting to see beauty turned on it's head, and this conversation shows it rather than tells. And it does so brilliantly.
The setting is handled really well, too. We know we're in some underground society, and using words like "discovered" also sets us up for this as a future, and one where things have been lost.
There is talk about food several times, but I'm curious what do they eat? The only reference to food I remember is the ceremonial human cracker in the beginning and the beetle comment Orson makes. But, there is a mention of food Kiosks, and Orson's friend say's he'd be more attractive if he lost weight, so there should be enough food. It makes me wonder, though, especially since this is a subterranian society. Can they even grow crops underground? I don't know why, but this issue caught me. It's something I'd like to know more about.
I really like how you handle Orson and Marja, and perhaps there is a place for Orson to develop his distrust of reductions. He comes off instantly hating the idea of reductions, I think you should work it in slower, more of an unease at first. Having Marja as an ally could be a place for him to develop that mistrust into rejection.
I like the fact that the reduction monuments have actual reductions in them, very creepy! I am a little confused on where it is on the monument. I can't quite picture it in my head, so a little more description would be nice. It's interesting how this is kind of like a theme park for them, too. It just shows how deeply ingrained reductions are in their society.
I still wish I could have read what goes on in the incinerator! Guess I'll have to wait for the book to come out. :)
Great work on this Chris, I had a hard time trying to think of things to critique.