So, I'm not sure if anyone saw an earlier draft of this or not, I did bring it to workshop a year ago. This is the first 20 pages of my YA fantasy, God of Shadows. This is a long-term book that I've been working on since I was an undergraduate. I've probaly had about 6 or 7 different (as in completely new, not counting revisions) begginings since this started, though I do feel I'm much much closer now than I have been before. Also, sorry I had to cut the story off mid-chapter, but I didn't want to go over the 20 pages. It's right when a new major character enters the stage, too! If anyone does want the rest, i can send it to you. ;)
I'm up for any comments you guys can through at me, character, voice, plot, dialogue, setting, all the usual stuff. Also, how does this work as a beggining. Is it effective, does it draw you in and keep you wanting to read more? How do you feel about the protagonist, Zahz? I've been playing around with his character, so I'm curious how he feels to you. I'll take whatever comments you can give me, big or small!
I'm working with Kelly Easton on this write now, and haven't gotten comments back since revising, so I'm curious to compare and contrast what she says when I do get her comments and yours.
Thank you all so much for the help, and thanks to Dave for creating such a great writing blog!
PS - like everyone else, I'm emailing out a word document to you, and not including the 20 pages here. let me know if for some reason you don't get it!
Writing that kicks your ass
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
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The first paragraph definitely caught my attention. I immediately wanted to know what was up with the box and the golden eyes.
ReplyDeleteNice story arch in the prologue with a beginning, middle and a satisfying end that asks the reader to read more. Prologues can be controversial so I’m glad you tied the protagonist to it by mentioning his name and connecting him to the king as the king’s son. Since you did use a prologue I think you made a wise move starting chapter one out with the protagonist’s name.
On page six, “with baited breath” is a little cliché.
I do like your development of Zahz’s character. He’s conflicted as to his princely duties but still desperate for his father’s approval. That’s a big deal with boys. I also like that he has a sensitive side that likes to paint but also a side that is skilled with sword and likes fighting. By the end of chapter one you’ve also given Zahz a character flaw in that he’s a bit of a quitter and not enough of his own man. His overcoming those flaws will make the story more interesting.
Telling us Zahz’s eyes are golden is a nice detail that ties him back to his dad.
And off he goes to save his dad. A perfect quest for a kid looking for his dad’s approval. I imagine Zahz will find out along the way that there is more to life than what his father thinks of him and that his self esteem should not depend upon what his dad thinks. Perhaps because of that realization the father/son relationship will deepen as will his father respect for him.
This story sounds very Dragonlance-like. It’s been a while since I read one of those books but to me your story seems as engaging. Your character development might be better
Daniel, I've been in the mood lately for a good high fantasy with a world to lose myself in. Your story promises just that. It reminded me of that great immersive joy I used to feel as a teenager curling up and reading authors like Robert Jordan and R.A. Salvatore. Your powers of description are considerable and put to appropriate use in this setting-heavy story.
ReplyDeleteThere's also a nice pace to the story which I enjoy. The spread of action and description and backstory felt just about right to me.
I like Zahz's yearning for his father's approval. I like his embarking on a quest, like a good hero's tale. Since it is such, I see him falling short, suffering, and eventually facing his deficiencies head-on.
A couple things to think about. The first is I feel slightly disconnected from Zahz because there seems to be conflicting yearnings. Sometimes he wants his father to see him and to get his approval. Other times he's glad dad isn't around so he can just avoid disappointing him. Sometimes he seems to want to become the great, heroic king he's destined to be. Other times he seems to want nothing to do with his royal life and its responsibilities. I think it's fine to have these conflicting yearnings. Just be intentional about the confusion inside him. Explore this conflict a little more so that we see clearly and early on how he himself may be confused about it. To paint or to be princely? To prove myself to dad, or to avoid him entirely? Hopefully that makes sense. Tell me if you want me to elaborate more.
The other thing is the dialog. It feels a bit modern, which again may be a deliberate choice. It may not necessarily need major revamping, just something to think about. I highly recommend studying Lloyd Alexander for excellent, natural fantasy/mid-evil sounding dialog.
Lord Zahz is clearly very close to your heart. Well done Daniel!
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteI used to think that language was the key to good writing: great analogies, surprising associations, strong nouns and verbs, very few adjectives and adverbs. But then I saw Alice McDermott speak and she described her goal of great language and a great story. Ever try to rid a manuscript of a great sentence when it did nothing to further the story? Then I saw Jonathan Franzen say, "Don't mistake your role as a writer. You are an entertainer." Then, and this is the last quote, Robert Olen Butler told his class, "No yearning equals no story worth reading." So, what does all this mean? I read these 20 pages as fast as I could wanting to know what was happening next. Not because of the language, although that is well done, but because you put me into a world I didn't question. "Alastar stroked his beard as his golden eyes focused on the box sitting in front of him. It was so small, so insignificant." I'm hooked. What's in the box? What will Alastar do when he opens it? And, you didn't give me too much. Kids groan when you tell them too much. They want to figure it out for themselves, but not until the last page, and then they can feel smart. "I knew that would happen," is a comment that comes from a satisfied 10 year old boy.
And then Zahz, wishing he was doing anything but princing. So, the story has yearning; save the kingdom and hang a painting in some fantasy Louvre. And maybe find a girl that loves me for who I am, not what I am; the princing thing again.
More to come for sure. Keep the story as the focus and write the words that feel right.
Good work.
Bill
Daniel: There's always something curious about the contents of a strange box. Since Alastar doesn't know Vassar (he refers to him as a stranger, so I assume the two aren't friend) and the guy shows up unannounced, the mystery is more intense than if Alastar had paid Vassar to bring the box to him. Since we know nothing about these two characters, the first thing that crept in my mind was if Vassar has something up his sleeve. I'm not sure I can trust him yet. What is his motivation? Will he crop up later in the story, or is he simply used as a vehicle to deposit the box on the king's lap?
ReplyDeleteQuestion--when did the prologue take place in relation to the first chapter? I don't know if it's the day before, or years before. Some kind of hint at a point in the first few chapters would satiate my curiosity. Anyone else wonder about this?
The way your depict the setting is concrete and wonderful. Easy to close your eyes and put yourself right in the story.
Zahz--you quickly establish how he feels about his father, what he thinks about being next in line for the throne, his attitude about dancing with girls, etc.
However, I find myself more interested in Gabriel. I wonder who he would be more loyal to if he had to choose: the king or Zahz. You've populated your 20 pages with interesting characters that I would like to discover more about.
Attached in a separate e-mail is more detailed comments on a line by line basis. Feel free to ignore the pushy editor in me.
Daniel--sorry I haven't posted yet. I'm drowning at work! We're heading into final week of the semester and my load should be light soon!
ReplyDeleteHey guys, thanks for all the great feedback! Mind if I ask a few questions back?
ReplyDeleteAlan - Great comments, I'm glad the prologue feels right. That was my major focus in the last packet as it wasn't quite right before. Would you mind speaking a bit more on character development? You mention it in your last sentence and I'd really like to hear about that.
Dave - If you wouldn't mind, I would like to hear more about the conflicted yearnings. Would it be better to just stick to one in the early chapter and then slowly develop the other? Or, have them both, just one more prominent than the other. Are there places it works or really doesn't. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Bill - Thank you so much for the great comments! I really love those quotes and it's nice to hear things are working for you as a reader. :)
Chris - Thanks for all the great comments, line editing can really be helpful sometimes! I appreciate you taking the time to do it. As for time frame, it's about 2 weeks. On the last page of the prologue Vassar asks Alastar to meet him at Stonebluff in 13 days. In Chapter 2, Gabriel comes in and tells Zahz that Alastar has left for Stonebluff. Should I make the connection clearer?
Andy - I know exactly how you feel, I've been in that situation a lot! Don't worry. Take your time.
Daniel. Wow. This is cool stuff.
ReplyDeleteWhat’s working:
I remember reading Skin Hunger this winter and thinking that the most amazing part of that book, to me, was how relatable, how real and tangible, and BELIEVABLE Duey makes magic. I think you’ve done the same thing here. At the moment Alastar grabs the object in the box and everything whooshes away, you’ve hooked me.
The language—especially in the prologue—is beautiful. You use very strong sensory details. I’m IN this story as I’m reading it. Even the sense of touch, which I think can be hard to do well, you manage with success (like the cold as ice, but not melting in his hand, object in the box).
Oh, and I love this line: “He could feel the ancient oak tremble with the sound of music and the murmur of voices.” Awesome.
As Bill notes, you’ve got the language down. But it’s not just language for the sake of language. It’s language that serves your story well.
Some things to think about:
I think the characterization is good. I get Zahz. But I think there’s some competing desires going on here. At times, he wants his father’s approval. At other times, he wants to avoid him altogether. That’s okay, though, I think. It adds to his complexity, and these desires aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. But I feel like they should be reconciled in some way. Maybe, for instance, he wants his father’s approval by being his own kind of king (not the kind of king his father is)? Maybe not. I dunno. Just something to think about.
Gabriel’s voice is great. Very distinct. And it gives me a strong sense of who he is. For me, some of his vocabulary (particularly aye and lad) conjures the images of a tough, but kind, Scottish knight. The voices of the other characters, though, seem to be a little too similar to one another at times, though. Maybe play with cadence and vocabulary with some of them the way you’ve done with Gabriel.
I presume Cassandra will be important to this story, but chapter 3 completely pulls me out of the narrative. The end of chapter 2 is exciting, and we’re getting ready to go after Alastar, but then we cut to Cassandra and this peripheral story. I think this transition could work, but I want to see Cassandra earlier in the story. Maybe she's there but I missed her? Maybe Zahz can see her sitting in the grass or something? Just something to make this transition a little less jarring would be good.
Finally—love the character’s names. Especially Alastar. Gives me a sense of place, time, and regality in just seven letters.
Thanks for sharing, Daniel. I hope I get to read more!
P.S. Sorry this is late. Wanted to type it up and send it last night. Baby Anders had other plans for me!
Daniel... I must have gotten left of the e-mail list for this piece... Can you send it to me again? THX!
ReplyDeleteJason
Jason - Just emailed you a copy, let me know if it gets to you!
ReplyDeleteDaniel…
ReplyDeleteEveryone else has compared this to something, so I am just going to pile on and say to me, it reminded me a bit of “Eragon.” Mainly, because the Dad things the boys fool around too much, and the hero is a bit reluctant in the beginning anyway. Also, I thought Christopher Paolini has a character similar to this, in Eragon. I mean in his mental state/age. Paolini was very successful with his books and his world, so I mean that as a compliment, (if you aren’t a fan). I like fantasy, and this is leaning me in the right direction. A quest worth questing.
I am not exactly sure how old Zahz is, exactly. If he is younger, I’d go that way, if he is like 17, I’d say this feels off a bit. His attitudes seem to be in conflict. This is difficult to manage.
I am against prologues. I will not go into my personal proclivities (too much), but why not just call this, Chapter 1? It is only 13 days later. Usually Prologues and Epilogues distinguish themselves by having a large gap in time from the main plot or narrative. Thirteen days does not really qualify. It also might play better if it was 13 years. Then, what happens? I get the feeling the quest is going to be the same, find the father, who may still be alive. Gabriel becomes more of a father figure, and Zahz is about to take the throne. Same problems, yet to me it would ratchet up the conflict more. Frankly, you give away so many things in the prologue, as a reader, look at all of these interesting things that I could discover with Zahz, through story. Now when we come upon them in the text, we as readers just have to go, “Oh yeah, that thing. I was wondering when that was going to come up again.”
Right now, I don’t have a great feeling/care one way or the other for Zahz’s plight. Why? Because Zahz himself is wishy-washy on the whole deal. A nicer way of saying that might be “conflicted” as you mentioned. But really, I know at this point that Zahz likes to draw. Zahz likes and respects Gabriel. I REALLY like the fact that Zahz decided to go after his father, and that is kingly bad-ass dad might need saving. This decision is made relatively quickly, and possibly with courage. That is the Zahz I want to read about.
I have to agree with Dave, some of the word choices are modern and should be reviewed. This seems to be a world that may not be medieval. Okay. So it is a fantasy world with some of the more modern 1700’s – 1800’s things? Words such as “glass slipper”, “violins”, “royal ball” these things are not in the traditional age of a fantasy world. I would look at this.
This is getting a bit long. One more thing. Your servants/pages are literate. This may be a small detail, but it also runs your world. What about schooling? What stories and experiences in fantasy school are there? Do they learn history? What about all this magic and such? One thing I liked about Le Guin’s Earthsea books, was that there were many ways that people came about their education, and it fed directly into the story. Consider this.
Over-all, I enjoyed this read, and what you are doing with the story. This has the potential to be a great epic, one with a little more texture and merit that the average sword and sorcery romp.
Nicely done,
Jason
Daniel, as far as what I mean about conflicted yearnings. My feeling is if you are going to have him sort of resent his responsibilities, yet at the same time want to prove his worthiness to dad, you should do it in a way that shows he is aware of the conflict inside him.
ReplyDeleteForgive me for this silly rewrite, but here is a generic example from the top of my head of what I mean: "Zahz resented being trapped by his responsibilities as prince, yet when he felt his father's eyes on him, he could not help but want to make him proud. Perhaps it was better that he was never around. This way, at least, he could not disappoint him." Developing something along these lines (perhaps more through dialog), lets us know that sure he doesn't like his situation, but even with that, he still ultimately wants to prove himself and receive affirmation from his dad. This makes it more exciting because then we know he's going to rock it Zahz-style, proving himself in a way that is unconventional and unique.
I do also like your idea of sticking to one yearning early on, and developing the other yearning later. I can easily see you starting out with just Zahz's resentment of his situation. But then something happens where he disappoints dad, and he really feels the sting of that. He wishes he could rise up to his expectations.
I think either way is a good way to go. You probably already know what's best. As Anne Ursu tells me, "Just write the damn book!"
Thanks Jason, I appreciate the encouragement!
ReplyDeleteDave - thanks for that, I think that might help. I'll definitely keep thinking about that quote of Anne's in the next few days! :)
Sorry I'm jumping in so late!
ReplyDeleteI echo what others have said about the world you're conjuring--wonderful. You so vividly render the magical experiences Alastar experiences in the prologue, and the stakes are so high from the beginning, that I wouldn't put the book down. Part of what gripped me in those opening pages was Vassar--he is such a mysterious character, he has special knowledge, and I'm not sure whether he's trustworthy or not (I like that I'm not sure yet whether I can trust him).
I do wonder if the prologue could be chapter one, and I do wonder if simplifying the chain of events linking prologue and Zahz's chapter might be simplified. Perhaps it happens the same night as the party and Alastar, knowing he can't sway the council and believing the matter is too urgent, simply decides he'll leave the next morning? This unusual action on A's behalf (A. seems to usually follow protocol) would highlight for Gabrial and Zahz that something very important is going on. Also, making the prologue chapter one might help establish the story's POV rules right away. It seems to me that a prologue written in one POV followed by a chapter one written in another leaves open the possibility that the rest of the book may stay in chapter one's POV. Does that make sense?
I like Zahz--he is sensitive and seems to want to be a competent prince but doesn't yet know how. I echo the observation that his desires don't seem to be in clear focus, but I don't have anything to add other than that you've imagined this story so richly that I have faith you'll bring Z's desires into focus!
I did wonder if somehow introducing Cassandra before Z's fight with Zahz could work well? G's challenge gives Z's storyline such direction and suspense that you could break away from it for a little bit to build suspense.
Again, wonderful job, Daniel!
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteYou asked me to say a bit more about my comments on your character development. I like that Zahz seems to be of two minds concerning his father. I think you’ve done a daring thing by portraying the way Zahz feels so realistically. The way Zahz feels is so typical of the way many real boys feel about their real father. These two emotions Zahz feels can seem conflicting, especially to boys. However, these feelings are really two sides of the same emotional coin. I agree with the comments others have made that these feelings need to be sorted out and perhaps their relationship to each other made clear but you can reveal that as the story progresses. Up front you could do a lot with only a word or two added here and there.
You have an advantage putting this kind of character in a fantasy setting. Fantasy readers tend to be patient and more willing to watch things unfold than readers of many other genres. Reader would be especially willing to wait for a resolution if you develop this seeming emotional juxtaposition as a painful conflict at war within your character.
By making emotion such a factor you’ve transformed a very commercial type of story into a more literary one. This could be a niche. Taran Wanderer by Lloyd Alexander comes to mind as one that inhabits that place but I can’t think of any others that do a good job of it. I think it’s interesting that Taran Wanderer is the forth book in the series. Readers stay with Taran as he struggles to deal with his internal conflict, which is related to his parentage, for four books before the conflict is finally reconciled. Of course the story is carried along by a lot of other stuff, but you have that other stuff: action, mystery, intrigue, etc.
I guess I should add what I, as a reader, see as the emotional conflict Zahz is eperiencing. I think I know that Zahz is upset becasue he loves his father but his father is not loving him back, meaning he is not giving Zahz what he needs, including, acceptance, admiration and his time.
ReplyDeleteWhere I think this story is going:
Zahz's dad is a king with lot other people he is responsible for. He can't coddle his son and give him lots of time but Zahz grows to the point where his father respects his sons input and then includes Zahz more fully in his life as a councelor and councelor or confidant.